Episode 3

The Importance of Adverse Media in an AML Program: Protecting Your Business from Hidden Dangers

Greg sits down with Zahra Sunderani, a seasoned expert in the Anti-Money Laundering (AML) sector, to discuss the critical role of adverse media in safeguarding businesses, especially in the real estate industry. They delve into the concept of adverse media, its importance, and practical approaches to implementing effective checks. Zahra shares compelling examples of how adverse media has uncovered significant criminal activities and discusses the broader implications for businesses.

Key Takeaways:

  • What adverse media is and why it is crucial for businesses, especially in real estate, to monitor it.
  • Addressing common concerns from professionals about the necessity and burden of conducting adverse media checks.
  • Exploring the balance between necessary due diligence and potential overreach into clients' lives.
  • Real life examples uncovered through adverse media and the ttool’s power in revealing hidden criminal activities.
  • Understanding the financial implications of continuous adverse media checks and the necessity of budgeting for these essential activities.
  • Insights into the evolving landscape of adverse media and the importance of staying informed and vigilant.

Connect with Greg and ReallyTrusted at:

https://reallytrusted.com/

https://www.facebook.com/ReallyTrusted/


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Transcript
Greg Dent:

Hello, Zarha, welcome to The Know your compliance

Greg Dent:

podcast.

Zahra Sunderani:

Thank you for having me.

Greg Dent:

Yeah, very, very excited to have this

Greg Dent:

conversation with you. We I want to introduce you a little bit,

Greg Dent:

give you a bit of a background. Give our guest a little bit of a

Greg Dent:

background as to who you are and why you're on our show today. So

Greg Dent:

I'll say that Zahra comes, joins, joined the really trusted

Greg Dent:

team about three and bit months ago now, and Zahra comes with a

Greg Dent:

bunch of different credentials and experience that was really

Greg Dent:

important for for the really trusted team. And one of the

Greg Dent:

main reasons we're really excited to have her join our

Greg Dent:

team some of Zara's previous work in the anti money

Greg Dent:

laundering space has been with one of the local credit unions

Greg Dent:

here and one of the local FinTech companies that are both,

Greg Dent:

I should say, for our guests, we're based in Vancouver,

Greg Dent:

actually, funnily enough, I realized this last night, Zahra

Greg Dent:

and I are On the minority of the really trusted team as being

Greg Dent:

local Vancouverites.

Zahra Sunderani:

Yeah, it seems like, it seems most people live

Zahra Sunderani:

outside of Vancouver, which is, which makes sense, which makes

Zahra Sunderani:

sense well,

Greg Dent:

and not only are live outside of our from Vancouver,

Greg Dent:

like there's very few, there's, there's, there's, we're a

Greg Dent:

minority. It turns out we are a

Zahra Sunderani:

minority. No, that's true. Whenever people ask

Zahra Sunderani:

me where I'm from, and I say Vancouver, I'm usually, the

Zahra Sunderani:

response is usually, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, when, when did

Zahra Sunderani:

you move here? At what point did you

Greg Dent:

right? Yeah, yeah. So Zara's previous work has been as

Greg Dent:

an AML supervisor analyst, pick AML and add a title to it, and

Greg Dent:

we did the same thing to her. Zahra is our AML Operations

Greg Dent:

Manager. So, so there you go. So really, welcome to the podcast.

Greg Dent:

Happy to chat with you today. Sarah, yeah, awesome. Happy to

Greg Dent:

be here now. I wanted today to talk a little bit about adverse

Greg Dent:

media. It's something that's become topical within the real

Greg Dent:

estate sector, where we do most of our work right now, and it's

Greg Dent:

something that I'm increasingly having conversations about with

Greg Dent:

people even outside of the real estate sector, as being kind of

Greg Dent:

a really important piece of the puzzle. So why don't we start

Greg Dent:

very basic. Why don't you give me, like, a 32nd description for

Greg Dent:

people who may not have heard before, what is adverse media

Greg Dent:

and what does it do? Why is it important? I guess, yeah,

Zahra Sunderani:

so adverse. I mean, if you look up adversing

Zahra Sunderani:

Google, basically just the word negative, it's the idea. And

Zahra Sunderani:

then media is any kind of articles or really anything

Zahra Sunderani:

related to media, video, anything that's kind of online

Zahra Sunderani:

that is potentially negative about somebody. And so whenever

Zahra Sunderani:

we think of adverse media, we think of, you know, articles

Zahra Sunderani:

that break on people who have committed crimes or whatever

Zahra Sunderani:

that is. And so the practice of adverse media is just doing that

Zahra Sunderani:

actual work, going and actually finding those articles to match

Zahra Sunderani:

with the individuals that you're doing business with, and that's

Zahra Sunderani:

adverse media, and that's

Greg Dent:

adverse media. So really it's and I guess in terms

Greg Dent:

of framing this for people new to the AML space, it's probably

Greg Dent:

the piece of the KYC that know your Well, for us, it's know

Greg Dent:

your compliance, but in that AML land, well, it's the Know Your

Greg Dent:

client regulations, and it's the way of getting a bit more of the

Greg Dent:

KYC information outside, from an outside source, from an external

Greg Dent:

source. Would that be?

Zahra Sunderani:

Yes, that's absolutely correct, because

Zahra Sunderani:

there's information that you obtain from whoever you're doing

Zahra Sunderani:

business with that they voluntarily give you, and

Zahra Sunderani:

totally fair if they find that that information is what they

Zahra Sunderani:

want to give you, that's fair. There's very much outside

Zahra Sunderani:

sources, which could include, say, a Twitter or x now, or

Zahra Sunderani:

whatever it is that they might not necessarily think it should

Zahra Sunderani:

be shared or or it just might not even come to mind, or

Zahra Sunderani:

potentially they don't want to share it whatever it is. It

Zahra Sunderani:

could be whatever. And so yes, it's absolutely just extra

Zahra Sunderani:

information that you could get that is publicly available that

Zahra Sunderani:

might impact how you do business with this individual

Greg Dent:

totally. So that's a great kind of built foundation

Greg Dent:

place to start. And I think there's a couple of things that

Greg Dent:

come to mind that are that some of our guests are probably going

Greg Dent:

to want us to delve into. So the first thing that I get pushed

Greg Dent:

back on occasionally is, well, I may enter blank here, whether

Greg Dent:

you're a realtor or a mortgage broker or a jewel dealer or

Greg Dent:

anything, I don't want to have to research my clients. Why

Greg Dent:

should that be my obligation? And I guess let's try and let's

Greg Dent:

try and trot through that a little bit, because I understand

Greg Dent:

the perspective, certainly, but

Zahra Sunderani:

I think I do too. I mean, it's, and I've

Zahra Sunderani:

heard this too, right? I I am this. I am not a, like, you

Zahra Sunderani:

know, private investigator. I'm not a criminal investigator. I'm

Zahra Sunderani:

not somebody that's supposed to be like, should I be that nosy,

Zahra Sunderani:

essentially, should I be that nosy into my clients doing? The

Zahra Sunderani:

reason why, unfortunately, you have to is, is because it's in

Zahra Sunderani:

law, it's, it's literally in law, it's, it's part of our

Zahra Sunderani:

laws. And because it's part of that laws, our laws, a lot of

Zahra Sunderani:

entities, a lot of businesses, business types, are now having

Zahra Sunderani:

these obligations where they do have to fulfill that. And the

Zahra Sunderani:

example that I always give whenever somebody gives me push

Zahra Sunderani:

back on this is, hey, at some point, when these laws came into

Zahra Sunderani:

place, where people were depositing their funds into a

Zahra Sunderani:

bank account, at some point, there was probably some pushback

Zahra Sunderani:

where clients were not wanting to give all of that information

Zahra Sunderani:

for just opening up a bank account because it's their money

Zahra Sunderani:

at the end of the day. But at some point, enough bank

Zahra Sunderani:

accounts. Sorry, enough banks, or whatever it is, the people

Zahra Sunderani:

who are opening the banks had done it to the point where it

Zahra Sunderani:

was normalized, and then consumers are now expecting

Zahra Sunderani:

those questions. So if you don't get those questions that are

Zahra Sunderani:

that nosy, you're probably wondering why this bank is not

Zahra Sunderani:

asking you that, and it's probably a bit sketchy, and so

Zahra Sunderani:

you should go to the bank next door. I guess my push to that

Zahra Sunderani:

is, it's, it's relatively new, but at some point it won't be,

Zahra Sunderani:

it'll be the total, the total expectation whenever somebody is

Zahra Sunderani:

doing business with

Greg Dent:

you, yeah. And I mean, I think the the continuing

Greg Dent:

line there becomes, and I guess where I yeah, I mean the

Greg Dent:

continuing line. And I'm mostly steel Manning this argument, by

Greg Dent:

the way, I generally agree that I actually have a slightly

Greg Dent:

different view before I get down that path. I have a slightly

Greg Dent:

different perspective on it, which is, as a business, I don't

Greg Dent:

think most businesses want to conduct business with criminals,

Greg Dent:

whether you know there be that a human trafficking ring, a drug

Greg Dent:

smuggling ring, whatever it is I think, like, when I think about

Greg Dent:

my business, I wouldn't want it affiliated with all of that

Greg Dent:

stuff, and Not not out of like, mostly out of like. I just don't

Greg Dent:

think that that's something I want to be involved in in any

Greg Dent:

way, shape or form. And I guess, from a risk management point of

Greg Dent:

view, to me, there's actually a case to be made for businesses

Greg Dent:

doing this, just on that level alone, if we, if we strip away

Greg Dent:

the regulatory obligation, which there clearly is as well, by the

Greg Dent:

way, and you've made a great case for there. Now, of course,

Greg Dent:

the where I wanted, the the next conversation, though, about that

Greg Dent:

is, is this a slippery slope? Is it, at what point are we

Greg Dent:

intruding into our clients lives so much that it's an

Greg Dent:

unreasonable amount of of due diligence or an unreasonable

Greg Dent:

amount of investigation? Is where the next challenge comes

Greg Dent:

up frequently in these conversations,

Zahra Sunderani:

yeah, and that's a really good question. I

Zahra Sunderani:

mean, I think, I mean, yeah, it's a really good question. I

Zahra Sunderani:

think that if there's precedence that other entities, other

Zahra Sunderani:

businesses, are able to do it, then I think generally the

Zahra Sunderani:

common stance is that you also can, and you also should,

Zahra Sunderani:

because the wheel has been invented, and all you're doing

Zahra Sunderani:

is just using the wheel truly, truly right? It's not, it's not

Zahra Sunderani:

something that is completely, completely brand new. And so I

Zahra Sunderani:

think that's the perspective. But you bring up something that

Zahra Sunderani:

is interesting, because at some point it could get to that point

Zahra Sunderani:

where it is, it is actually crossing that line. And I would

Zahra Sunderani:

imagine that there would be enough pushback that it'll start

Zahra Sunderani:

to claw back a little bit

Greg Dent:

interesting. That's a that's a interesting point that

Greg Dent:

I I'm not sure I'd consider the what the clawback looks like.

Greg Dent:

And I guess we're is certainly within the real estate sector.

Greg Dent:

We're still so new to adverse media. I had a conversation a

Greg Dent:

couple months ago with a managing broker who was very

Greg Dent:

proud to tell me that, you know, they do adverse media. They

Greg Dent:

check every now and then to make sure there's nothing being said

Greg Dent:

about their business in a bit negative

Zahra Sunderani:

and unfair, though fair. Of course I would

Zahra Sunderani:

if I wasn't, if I wasn't someone that was that was well versed in

Zahra Sunderani:

anti money. Latter I also would that is literally the definition

Zahra Sunderani:

of adverse media, which is negative, so good and so true.

Zahra Sunderani:

But no, it is. Yeah, I do think that there's going to be some at

Zahra Sunderani:

some point, because it is true, like the government is asking a

Zahra Sunderani:

lot of businesses to do a lot of work because they can't handle

Zahra Sunderani:

it. They can't do it themselves. So it is this one way of just

Zahra Sunderani:

being able to safeguard, basically, the economy in

Zahra Sunderani:

Canada, yeah, the

Greg Dent:

financial system of our country. Yes, yeah. Now, in

Greg Dent:

your experience, can you think of an example where adverse

Greg Dent:

media has has played a role? What do you have a good story

Greg Dent:

you could tell us about where adverse media has been really

Greg Dent:

kind of interesting?

Zahra Sunderani:

Yeah? I mean, I, I want to use, I'll, I'll

Zahra Sunderani:

talk about one. But I also want to use other ones that are not

Zahra Sunderani:

as almost like, like big the big stories are fun and they're

Zahra Sunderani:

juicy, but I think, yeah, they also can take away from the idea

Zahra Sunderani:

that it does, it's just really commonplace sometimes. So, so

Zahra Sunderani:

maybe, maybe I'll talk about two, but the first one is one

Zahra Sunderani:

that is just really common. You already touched about it, which

Zahra Sunderani:

is just trafficking in general. So whether that be sex

Zahra Sunderani:

trafficking, the most recent one, actually today was a fin

Zahra Sunderani:

track publication about migrant workers. And so human

Zahra Sunderani:

trafficking, 100 100% the number of times that I and so yes, from

Zahra Sunderani:

previous roles, I've done a lot of financial crime. And so I'm

Zahra Sunderani:

looking through accounts and just making sure that, hey, is

Zahra Sunderani:

there anything that's off, or any indicators for money

Zahra Sunderani:

laundering? With, with the indicators that with, with, with

Zahra Sunderani:

what you can see. Sometimes the picture is just not there to

Zahra Sunderani:

complete what you think you might be seeing. And so there

Zahra Sunderani:

was this one, one case where it was one person that we were able

Zahra Sunderani:

to just do an adverse media and when we say do an adverse media

Zahra Sunderani:

search, we just mean just basically going to Google or

Zahra Sunderani:

Bing or defect or whatever, whatever browser use, and

Zahra Sunderani:

literally just type their name, potentially with their city. And

Zahra Sunderani:

things can come up absolutely and so it ended up being that

Zahra Sunderani:

this person had actually been sex trafficked. So the

Zahra Sunderani:

individual that I was looking at was one of the victims, but the

Zahra Sunderani:

name in that article that was also noted was the person that

Zahra Sunderani:

was actually trafficking that individual through that article,

Zahra Sunderani:

we then went back, found that one account in our system that

Zahra Sunderani:

we were doing business with, and it was, I think it was like, it

Zahra Sunderani:

was like over 250 separate accounts that they had created

Zahra Sunderani:

with different names and different aliases that money was

Zahra Sunderani:

flowing in, in and out of all of those accounts where, then that

Zahra Sunderani:

that ended up being 250 STRS just from that one adverse media

Zahra Sunderani:

publication that we saw. So I guess, I guess. What I want to

Zahra Sunderani:

say about that is that you might, you might think, Oh, hey,

Zahra Sunderani:

you know I, I know my client, you know, I know the people that

Zahra Sunderani:

they that they hang out around, whatever it is, but it there are

Zahra Sunderani:

so many links that we actually don't really know, just just

Zahra Sunderani:

because we know them in person, that there might be online that

Zahra Sunderani:

you would have just never known. Had you not doing that, had you

Zahra Sunderani:

not completed that search. And I

Greg Dent:

mean that that person hadn't told you that he was

Greg Dent:

human trafficking. That's odd. That's hard to believe that one

Zahra Sunderani:

listed Carpenter, carpenter. He was a

Zahra Sunderani:

carpet well.

Greg Dent:

And, you know, I think that's a really

Greg Dent:

illustrative example of why this stuff is important. Because I

Greg Dent:

think, you know, even, even the people who really don't want to

Greg Dent:

be captured by fin tracks, regs, and we talk with a lot of those

Greg Dent:

people on a regular basis in our business, even those people

Greg Dent:

would agree that they also don't want human trafficking to exist

Greg Dent:

In Canada like that is, I that's a pretty vanilla statement. I'd

Greg Dent:

like to think, and I hope so anyway, and, and I think the

Greg Dent:

perspective I've tried to take on it, and what I've tried to

Greg Dent:

tell people is, you know, if you can just by doing your job the

Greg Dent:

way you're supposed to be doing it help prevent just a little

Greg Dent:

bit of that. Doesn't that make it worth it? I think, like,

Greg Dent:

that's,

Zahra Sunderani:

yeah, I mean, and that's exactly it. I mean,

Zahra Sunderani:

do we want this person who has sex trafficked over 250 victims

Zahra Sunderani:

to use their funds that they obtained during that time to

Zahra Sunderani:

then buy a house? Right? I just don't. I just don't. Yeah, you

Zahra Sunderani:

don't really feel right about that. And it has, it doesn't

Zahra Sunderani:

have anything to do with, like, necessarily. Well, actually, it

Zahra Sunderani:

does have a lot to do with ethics. I guess

Greg Dent:

it does quite a bit, yes, yeah, but, and it's okay, I

Greg Dent:

think again, it's one of those things that as a country, I

Greg Dent:

think we can all agree that that's not. I think if we were

Greg Dent:

to take a poll, you know, whether whatever political party

Greg Dent:

you're gonna vote for, yeah, I think most people would still

Greg Dent:

vote that they do not want sex trafficking to occur in Canada.

Greg Dent:

That's, I hope we would get somewhere in the 90% ish on that

Greg Dent:

one, yeah, there's always gonna be a few people. Who are you?

Zahra Sunderani:

Well, those people are likely, those people

Zahra Sunderani:

committing the crimes.

Greg Dent:

Hey, maybe this is a new adverse media technique we

Greg Dent:

could inform

Zahra Sunderani:

to be made in criminals. That's for sure.

Zahra Sunderani:

There

Greg Dent:

you go. So that's a really great dramatic example

Greg Dent:

that I think really highlights the power of the tool. Are there

Greg Dent:

some other kind of less dramatic ones you could think of that

Greg Dent:

would be worth kind of sharing and talking about?

Zahra Sunderani:

Yeah, I think that the less kind of exciting

Zahra Sunderani:

ones are are just related generally to fraud. And I want

Zahra Sunderani:

to, I wanted to bring this one up, because I think similarly, I

Zahra Sunderani:

guess it might not be as shiny, but it is also really important,

Zahra Sunderani:

because once again, it just goes back into the people that are,

Zahra Sunderani:

you know, that have clean money and that are trying to use these

Zahra Sunderani:

services and pay for things. Things are more expensive,

Zahra Sunderani:

generally, are harder to come by, because, unfortunately,

Zahra Sunderani:

things are kind of blown out of proportion from the people that

Zahra Sunderani:

have dirty money and have access to dirty money. And so when it,

Zahra Sunderani:

when I say fraud, the one, the one example that I brought, or

Zahra Sunderani:

that I was thinking of, was just a person who had gone from

Zahra Sunderani:

corporation to corporation to Corporation, to Corporation,

Zahra Sunderani:

filed for bankruptcy, filed for bankruptcy, and just through

Zahra Sunderani:

this chain of kind of corporate filings, would basically commit

Zahra Sunderani:

whatever various type of fraud it was. Filed for bankruptcy,

Zahra Sunderani:

not not be held liable in any sort of way where they wouldn't

Zahra Sunderani:

be able to just start a new corporation, and then continued

Zahra Sunderani:

that chain. And so what was happening is, and I am talking

Zahra Sunderani:

about, technically, a Ponzi scheme. This person was an

Zahra Sunderani:

investment person, but as a say, as a realtor, if somebody comes

Zahra Sunderani:

to you and they say, Hey, I've got this corporation, I've got

Zahra Sunderani:

this business, this is the cash flow. I can show you the

Zahra Sunderani:

statements like without doing a adverse media search. You might

Zahra Sunderani:

never, ever know that this person who looks extremely

Zahra Sunderani:

legitimate looks like they've had years and years of business.

Zahra Sunderani:

This corporation might appear big because they might have

Zahra Sunderani:

multiple employees. It might be completely illegitimate and the

Zahra Sunderani:

victims are actually the people that are, unfortunately, people

Zahra Sunderani:

that you don't know and who are having good faith in that one

Zahra Sunderani:

individual. And so in this way, it's like they're able to

Zahra Sunderani:

continually move their money in ways where the government's not

Zahra Sunderani:

able to actually seize the funds and give it back to the victims.

Zahra Sunderani:

And that is the kind of one that I think I see a lot, which, and

Zahra Sunderani:

not specifically the Ponzi scheme, general types, different

Zahra Sunderani:

types of fraud that that can be found in adverse media. But

Zahra Sunderani:

aren't, as you know, flashy and massive, and there's no Netflix

Zahra Sunderani:

documentary, well, there might be, but that'll be flashy

Zahra Sunderani:

anyhow, too. Yeah, they'll

Greg Dent:

find a way to make it flashy. But I think that's a

Greg Dent:

really good example, actually. And the reason I really like

Greg Dent:

that example is because one of the things businesses don't want

Greg Dent:

to do is be involved in fraudulent activity, because

Greg Dent:

they might just be the victim of that fraud. And I guess, like,

Greg Dent:

if I think about the real estate sector, and where that might

Greg Dent:

come up is, if you're dealing with somebody who's buying a

Greg Dent:

home and their deposit check bounces for $100,000 the

Greg Dent:

brokerage might be the one on the hook. That's that's a real,

Greg Dent:

actual possibility. And so ignoring the like societal

Greg Dent:

benefit angle of adverse media, that's something that the

Greg Dent:

business who's doing the adverse media probably wants to know,

Greg Dent:

just for their own protection, let alone anything else. So

Zahra Sunderani:

yeah, 100% Yeah, yeah, no, it's, it's

Zahra Sunderani:

tough. But I mean, and that, I think, you know, this might

Zahra Sunderani:

segue into different conversation, but that that kind

Zahra Sunderani:

of goes into, okay, well, what are the brokerages able to do to

Zahra Sunderani:

get their adverse media sorted? Well,

Greg Dent:

I think that's the natural next part of this

Greg Dent:

conversation. And I, you know, wanted to give the audience a

Greg Dent:

couple of good examples of why. Let's talk about the how and

Greg Dent:

what are the best practices out there. How are people doing

Greg Dent:

this? Are people doing this, and what does it look like?

Zahra Sunderani:

I think you would be, you'd be a really good

Zahra Sunderani:

person to speak about with regards to the real estate

Zahra Sunderani:

sector, but at least I can maybe speak on other sectors that are

Zahra Sunderani:

all, yeah, there's, there's generally one way of doing it,

Zahra Sunderani:

which is very manual, which is just somebody sitting there at a

Zahra Sunderani:

computer and just doing these searches every time a new client

Zahra Sunderani:

comes in. There are various systems that people can pay for

Zahra Sunderani:

that goes ahead and uses llms largely large language models to

Zahra Sunderani:

be able to do that as well. There's various automations.

Zahra Sunderani:

Those can get really expensive. Unfortunately, it's. It's and

Zahra Sunderani:

literally just coming off of just certain quotes a few years

Zahra Sunderani:

or, sorry, a few months ago, a lot of people will charge you $1

Zahra Sunderani:

for every client that you want to run through some adverse

Zahra Sunderani:

media. So it can be quite expensive. And those are, I

Zahra Sunderani:

mean, those are really the two ways, unless, unless your

Zahra Sunderani:

business is able to create a system at hand within the

Zahra Sunderani:

business that's free, that manual is kind of the way to go.

Greg Dent:

Now, I just want to, because I think a bunch of our

Greg Dent:

real estate clients right now are probably going, Oh, it's

Greg Dent:

only $1 we can totally afford that. Oh, sorry, but, but I

Greg Dent:

think they're, they're missing a really important piece about

Greg Dent:

that puzzle. It's the ongoing nature of the whole thing. Yes,

Greg Dent:

so let's, let's delve into that for a second to because it's not

Greg Dent:

$1 per client, it's actually $1 per client per period,

Zahra Sunderani:

yes, yes. Sorry, I should clarify. So when

Zahra Sunderani:

I say $1 per client, what I mean, is so the expectations

Zahra Sunderani:

that you're at least doing this, and, you know, people can do

Zahra Sunderani:

this once a day, a check, once a day, people can do this once a

Zahra Sunderani:

month. I would say probably once a month. And maybe I'd probably

Zahra Sunderani:

say once a month is probably the longest you want to go. So say

Zahra Sunderani:

you have, I don't know, 1000 clients, and you need to do that

Zahra Sunderani:

every month for one year, right? The the dollars do it up, that's

Zahra Sunderani:

$1,000 a month, and then that's $12,000 a year. And then

Zahra Sunderani:

depends, of course, you're going to have more clients. So of

Zahra Sunderani:

course, you're going to be wanting to add more to that. So

Zahra Sunderani:

depending on how big you scale and how many clients you enter

Zahra Sunderani:

into. And then on top of that, I should also note tintrec has

Zahra Sunderani:

been their guidance has said that we do want to be doing this

Zahra Sunderani:

for a five year period, from once you get a client to just

Zahra Sunderani:

the end of the the relationship of the client. Even if you

Zahra Sunderani:

haven't spoken to that client in five in four years, you still

Zahra Sunderani:

need to be doing these adverse media searches for that time

Zahra Sunderani:

period. So it's can become very hefty, very quickly. Good.

Greg Dent:

I just wanted to kind of come back because I think

Greg Dent:

otherwise, there's a bunch of real estate companies out there

Greg Dent:

who are like, Oh, dollar. I can afford that. Let's go. But what

Greg Dent:

you're actually saying is it's, it ends up being quick math, $60

Greg Dent:

a client, kind of minimum to do it properly, and that's if you

Greg Dent:

have a system that's built out so it's actually ends up being

Greg Dent:

far more, far, far, far more. Yeah, no. And I think to the

Greg Dent:

question you raised at the beginning, my experience in the

Greg Dent:

real estate sector would tell me that very, very, very few

Greg Dent:

brokerages have any sort of a adverse media concept at all at

Greg Dent:

this point. And certainly that's that's one of the reasons that

Greg Dent:

we felt it was important to start to build that, that that

Greg Dent:

segment of our capabilities, for our for our clients, on the fin

Greg Dent:

track, express, part of things as you as you well know. So,

Greg Dent:

yeah. Okay, so I guess I wanted to leave we've kind of presented

Greg Dent:

the the what it is, and the the why it's important, and the how

Greg Dent:

to do it, side of things. Is there any other Is there

Greg Dent:

anything about the future of adverse media, or anything that

Greg Dent:

we haven't talked about that you think we we want to leave the

Greg Dent:

audience with, yeah, yeah.

Zahra Sunderani:

I think, I think one thing that I would

Zahra Sunderani:

love to just quickly touch on is the idea that, I think a lot of

Zahra Sunderani:

the times when people are starting to do adverse media

Zahra Sunderani:

searches, they can feel overwhelmed, rightly so about

Zahra Sunderani:

what crimes are actually ones that that are maybe applicable

Zahra Sunderani:

to their brokerage or applicable to their practice. Yeah. And

Zahra Sunderani:

this, you know, I, my very common kind of example is that

Zahra Sunderani:

in every different job that I've been in, every different

Zahra Sunderani:

industry that I've been in, everybody takes a different

Zahra Sunderani:

stance on, say, for example, the crime of first degree murder,

Zahra Sunderani:

where, which, which is, I think, a really good one, because, of

Zahra Sunderani:

course, nobody likes murder. Nobody wants murder. It's

Zahra Sunderani:

terrible. I think, I think, once again, no matter what side of

Zahra Sunderani:

the political spectrum you're on, you can generally agree that

Zahra Sunderani:

that's bad. But is this necessarily something that is

Zahra Sunderani:

related to money laundering or terrorist financing associated

Zahra Sunderani:

to your business's transactions and practices. Some people will

Zahra Sunderani:

err on the side of caution and say, yes, absolutely, I have

Zahra Sunderani:

this is a violent crime. You know that the some people will

Zahra Sunderani:

say, No, actually, and, and finally, I'm actually on that,

Zahra Sunderani:

on on that kind of side where I think that there's a lot of gray

Zahra Sunderani:

and a lot of crimes, yeah? So yeah, I wanted to bring that up

Zahra Sunderani:

because I know that people can feel overwhelmed with what

Zahra Sunderani:

they're looking at and if it's something that they should file

Zahra Sunderani:

on.

Greg Dent:

Yeah. No, that's a really good point, actually, and

Greg Dent:

I'm glad you raised it, because, yeah, you know the the murder

Greg Dent:

for hire? Well, yes, that's. Not might be money laundering, but,

Greg Dent:

but how do you differentiate that? And how do you kind of

Greg Dent:

figure that out? And that's where really getting the back.

Greg Dent:

And I'm going to tell you that the Hitman probably doesn't

Greg Dent:

identify themselves to you in their occupation as being a hit

Zahra Sunderani:

man, unless you have access to the dark web and

Zahra Sunderani:

you're able to look up their name.

Greg Dent:

Yeah. That's, that's a whole new level of adverse

Greg Dent:

searching, going, going to the dark web like it. Yeah,

Zahra Sunderani:

that's fun too. That that, that's, that's really

Zahra Sunderani:

interesting. It's a lawless land

Greg Dent:

that's awesome, lovely. Well, thank you so much

Greg Dent:

for for coming on today. Sorry. It's been really a lovely

Greg Dent:

conversation, and I hope that our audience will get something

Greg Dent:

out of it. And yeah, thank you. And I look forward to chatting

Greg Dent:

you at some point in the future. Yeah,

Zahra Sunderani:

no, thanks for having me. And yeah, chat later.

Zahra Sunderani:

Take care. Bye, great. You.

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